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Welcome to visionaries where we
explore stories, strategies and
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insights from the world's most
inspiring entrepreneurs, brands
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and creators. Were on a mission
to help visionaries like you
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stand out and monetize their
knowledge, influence and message
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online. Exploring topics like
business marketing, creativity,
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and personal development. Let's
build your vision for a happier,
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more meaningful life, business
and community together.
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Today, we are talking with
Darren winter Ford, he is the
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CEO and founder of Ed app. And
he has extensive experience
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building mobile apps and pushing
the boundaries of innovation. As
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a pioneer in the micro learning
space at apps teams led by
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Darren are established, and
Cindy London, Manila, in New
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York. Today, the app platform
has a wide reach where around
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50,000 lessons are completed
every single day in over 90
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countries around the world. And
Darren is all about
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democratizing education and
learning, and making it
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accessible to countries, people
and workplaces all around the
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world. So today, join Deron and
I as we explore how you can use
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ad app in your own visionary
business. Darren, it's so good
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to have you on the show. Yeah,
thanks
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very much. Thanks
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for having me. Well, for those
who are getting introduced to
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you, tell us a little bit more
about what you do, what your
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businesses app, and all things
going on for you.
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So it up is a mobile based LMS.
You know, in really simple
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terms, it's a tool that is
deployed by teams looking to,
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you know, level up, and be able
to, you know, be trained, and
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usually within a workforce
situation predominantly. And,
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and yeah, as I suggested, it's
really a way for teams around
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the world, you know, to receive
their workplace learning in bite
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sized chunks of micro learning.
So think about us as the the
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tweeter of the of the learning
world. In the workforce, it's
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small, digestible chunks of
learning, you know, three or
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four minutes long delivered at a
higher frequency than your
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traditional e learning model.
You know,
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I think this is so powerful. And
that's why I wanted to talk to
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you more about this is a lot of
those watching or listening. A
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lot of you sell online courses
or consulting products, where
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your businesses are maybe not as
enterprise level or you know,
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those those who you need that
big LMS. And it's interesting,
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because I came from a massive
Corporation where we had
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versions of that, I'll call it
archaic, it wasn't super robust,
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or especially like nowadays,
we'd much prefer to consume,
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right, like you're doing in
micro bite sized pieces of
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content, which I think is a lot
more powerful, and versus
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watching a mandatory 60 minute
training in the middle of your
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work day. And, and so something
that I find, like, you know, for
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for the audience we're speaking
to and those who are all about
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selling their knowledge and
delivering a learning type
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material and content to their
audience, how can app possibly
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benefit them? Whether they're in
a small to midsize business?
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Yeah, we call it that, that
phenomenon of the old, archaic,
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you know, it's what we realized
was, you know, in people's
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workplaces or professional
lives, you know, it's like
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Flintstones, when it comes to
engaging with learning material,
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and then they walk out the door,
and it's the Jetsons, and
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they're on Instagram, Facebook,
tick tock with these beautiful,
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you know, user experiences. And
so really, our mission was to,
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first of all, not only
democratize learning and make it
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more accessible, which I'll talk
about, but the second thing is
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to just make it a modern and
engaging experience for the, for
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the audience, for the learner.
And we had a look around, like
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you, we've all been exposed,
everyone in my team has been
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exposed to those 90 or 60
minute, you know, learning
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intervals that we're all forced
to do. And again, it goes
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straight over your head, it's in
one ear and out the other, as
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they say. And we really started
to think about well, okay, you
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know, that the smartphone really
changed the workplace in, you
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know, the lights, you know,
probably 2016 and, and beyond
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as, bring your own device became
something standard in the
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workplace. And we began to see
the ability for, you know, the,
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I guess, Business Solutions
really being something
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legitimate on a smartphone. And
so, the way I would talk about
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edip, if, as a content creator,
is essentially you know, we have
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a no code offering tool that
again, going back to
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democratizing learning, it's
very easy to use. It's free
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accessible. And we realize that
we, if we could combine that
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with delivery, that goes out to
a smartphone, again, where it's
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very different to what the rest
of the industry really does,
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which is this traditional kind
of SCORM file that, you know,
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you slave over, you upload that
to the LMS of a client, for
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example. And then you know, that
sort of feedback loop is
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completely broken, the LMS
receives all the analytics, the
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content off is left in the dark,
and they don't know how well
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it's done, you know, there were
areas that people struggled
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with. And that's what we found
was was really broken. And so
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with, with our product that we
put together, there's no code
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offering tool, this ability
deleted straight out to a
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smartphone, and guide the author
into how to make it these small,
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bite size digestible pieces. And
use gamification which is
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embedded into the platform,
enable them if they want to be
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able to sell courseware quite
easily using a payment gateway,
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and they can you know, stripe or
whatever it is that can help
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them whatever their payment
gateway provider of choice is,
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and then be able to provide
actually a learning intervention
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for you know, clients or team
members, that is a highly
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engaging one and might talk to
them using push notifications,
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and, and those kinds of things,
to be able to engage with an
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audience, let's say for, you
know, four times a fortnight
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versus, you know, 116 minute
intervention. And what we've
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found is that is that in doing
that, not only is it much more
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accessible, it's a hopefully a
pleasure to use that app. But
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also, it's actually better for
the, for the learner. And I say
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that it's not just more
engaging, and people, you know,
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are much more likely to want to
complete the content. But also,
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it's like, those intervals, you
talked about the 90 minutes, if
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we compare it to a gym, going to
the gym once a week for 90
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minutes, and you know, busting
your gut versus going three
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times for 20 minutes, you know,
and doing, you know, arguably
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less time, but going at a
shorter interval, you'll have a
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much greater impact, and your
brain works exactly the same
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way. And so it's not only a
fantastic user experience on the
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smartphone, but it's actually,
you know, it's much more
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memorable, and it's better for
the learner as well. So key
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concepts that are being
explored, we can actually get
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that to resonate much better
with a learner delivered out on
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an app and, you know, primarily
smartphone delivery, than the
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traditional methods that are out
there at the moment.
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I think that's so powerful too,
because, you know, as as much
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with my own personal journey,
but also adapting to the
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innovations of today and the
attention span. A lot of times,
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you don't really get any, any
wins or actual items. Or it's
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just, it's overwhelming. And so
to me, the bite sized pieces of
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content are huge, to adapt. And
you're the first platform by the
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way that I've heard, that
focuses on educating people
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about this new way of doing
things.
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Yeah, and we really spend a lot
of time with, you know, there
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are 1000s of people, obviously,
using the platform as content
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creators. And we spend a lot of
time talking about the trust
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between the author and the and
the learner. And if, you know,
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it's sort of a mask, that when
you open up the app, you see how
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many minutes, you know, this
lesson is actually going to
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take. And we talked about
building the trust with the
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learner that if I get a
notification that, okay, there's
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something new available, that
the minute used that sort of
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breaking that trust, and I open
it up, and it says this takes 35
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minutes to complete, you're
going to end up like the rest of
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the learning community being
pushed to the, you know, you
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know, the stiring of the inbox,
or that, yeah, I'll get to this
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later, or flag that that gets
moved to one side. And once that
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behavior starts, you know, we
all know it's one of those, one
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of those interventions, it's
going to happen on the 31st day
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of the of the month, right? It's
that job, and I need to make
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sure I do that. And so we do
talk about the trust between the
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author and the learner that
look, these are really small
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interventions. So exactly as you
said, you can do it while you're
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waiting for the subway while
you're waiting for the bus. You
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can do it in that downtime
you've got, you know, waiting
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for your Tinder date to show up,
you know that that's the type of
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the time we're looking at here
to try and be able to put these
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little micro learning moments
throughout a learner's week.
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That will result in a much
better engagement rate and much
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better results, then, yeah,
look, you're going to have to
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try and find 35 minutes for this
at some stage in your week.
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Well, yeah, we all know, that's
the easiest thing to push aside.
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Yeah, definitely. What one thing
I'm thinking of use cases to
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where obviously from a For side,
you have the standard trainings
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around maybe harassment or
workplace culture, you know,
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things like that, that are
standard to especially larger
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corporations. But, you know,
from a learning management
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perspective, would you say that
in there are like internal
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training specific to certain
roles and departments and
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functions that accompany Yeah,
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yeah, we see the use case, you
know, I can tell, you know, we
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can sit here for half an hour
and talk about the amazing
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things that we some teams doing
with it. But yeah, just to get
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an idea on what because it's,
it's, you know, it's so easy to
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author content, it enables
anyone that as an author, to be
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able to really segment and
target lessons very, very
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easily, because it's, it's so
quick to put them together. And
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so what you'll find is, if I, if
I start at the largest
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enterprise, we see, you know,
Global Automakers, we have
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clients that would have saved
more than 30,000 staff using the
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platform, and they'll be using
it, you know, every month. But
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if we drop down to even even
team sizes of of a dozen, where
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you've got passionate advocates
for learning, and it might be
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product knowledge, it might be
how to sell it might be How to
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Get home safely, it might be you
know, installing solar panels on
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a roof, or it might be
leadership principles, we can,
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because we've now got this
unprecedented ability to author
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very easily, that content flows
much more rapidly, and
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therefore, authors also, because
they need less time, are
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actually able to put in better
content and more specialized
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content for smaller teams. And
so rather than taking the
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generic approach, that's
probably, you know, really
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affected the industry where
people say, Okay, well, I've
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only got a dozen people in my
leadership team or, you know, I
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won't punch up cause for 20
people that I'm going to sell
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this to, rather than taking
something generic, like a
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LinkedIn learning or something
that's, let's say, in a more of
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an easy buy, that I can buy for
a few dollars a month, I can
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structure it out and push it Am
I sort of job's done. Our tool
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really enables you to give them
something much more specific,
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therefore something much more
relevant and find much more
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engaging. And we don't need to
go that no generic route, you
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know, any more for even smaller
teams. And so that means we've
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opened up and as I said, you
know, we're really democratized
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access to learning and it's not
just now in an enterprise that
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have 30,000 staff, we now see
teams of all sizes. And, and,
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you know, the most amazing uses
for the platform. One example
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would be the United Nations use
app. And they use it in war torn
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parts of the world, Afghanistan,
raw parts of northern Africa,
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and they are able to use it even
if they've got cohorts of 30 or
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40 people that they are trying
to be you know, changemakers
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within their societies. app is
that tool that enables them to
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deliver to those smaller cohorts
because again, the author and
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can be specialized and highly
specific to those groups of
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people. But they will also use
it to train up 1000s of people
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that they move through programs
every year around you know,
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Women's Entrepreneurship or you
know, emerging from war torn
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society, you know, fundamental
human rights, there's a great
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number of topics that they
educate on. And, and that's I
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think one of the most successful
things about the platform is its
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accessibility, which enables
highly targeted content, which
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then enables more engagement and
you know, people to hopefully
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fall in love with it with
learning again.
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Yeah, yeah. And, and I love
that, that mission and what you
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just said at the end, too, as
far as falling in love with
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learning again, because, you
know, our access to knowledge is
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is not lacking now and you know,
especially now with how much the
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Internet has really expanded
access information. But I think
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it's it's like you've mentioned
the targeted information. United
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Nations covers a broad range,
I'm sure of topics and resources
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that are needed for education,
but then you can get more micro
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and more focused. And one thing
that's that I love too, is that
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you talked about the
customization or as far as like
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payment portals, and setups that
you know, even those who are
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whether using it for internal
training, for external training,
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for even product selling in its
own way, right, that digital or
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knowledge based product, there
are opportunities across the
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board that adapt can apply. And
I think there's a lot of power
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in that. Yeah,
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yeah. Especially, you know,
obviously the growth during
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COVID of, you know, small
consultants looking at to where
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they want to deliver, they've
traditionally delivered face to
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face, or they've traditionally
delivered in some sort of hybrid
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model. And now going to, okay, I
need to continue to be able to
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train external parties, I need
to be able to sell my, my IP
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and, you know, to, to these
audiences around the world and
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deliver it in an engaging way.
So as a small consultant, you
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know, yeah. And up to a really
affordable edit plan, be able to
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put that content together, and
then deliver that out behind a
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payment gateway at scale, and
enrich those audiences. There's
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also a way for even for, we have
what's called a public content
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library, which anyone can
access, I think there's about
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800 courses in there, and
they're all absolutely free. And
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we've seen small consultants
also, who, you know, don't want
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to, let's say, you know,
giveaway that the majority of
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what's great about their
programs, but they're looking to
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try and put out into the
marketplace a taste of what they
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offer, and our public library
can can enable them to do that.
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Yeah, that's so good. You know,
one thing I'm thinking about
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Darren to is how the knowledge
base industry, whether again,
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whatever the size of business,
you're in, how that's continuing
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to grow, and really stretch in
all parts of the world. What do
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you see, as far as like, what's
coming next, and what's gonna be
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working in the future in the
knowledge economy?
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I think, quite honestly, we're
looking to, and I think what
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we're all going to see is more
and more assistance with content
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creation coming from, you know,
machine learning and AI, there
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is so much fantastic subject
matter experts that we meet
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daily, either either in small
organizations, or perhaps
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consultants that are, again,
approaching teams and businesses
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out there with, you know, how
they can help as consultants.
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And I do think that content
creation we're talking about is
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still even a no code offering
tool, it's very simple. And we
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can see what he's already that
we can even save content,
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writers and authors even more
time to be able to get that
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material into a format that's
easily digestible by learners.
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And I think we've started with,
we use a form of AI for language
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translation, to be able to have
people author in English and
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then translate out into 150
languages. But I think that's
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really good. I think that's
really the tip of the iceberg
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where we're going to see and,
you know, what we need to be at
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a place very quickly, is to be
able to extract, you know, that
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subject matter from someone,
whether that's an expert or a
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consultant, and be able to have
that, you know, very, very
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quickly put out into, you know,
a format that an individual
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learner finds that that's, you
know, the way I want to consume
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that, and that is the best
format and delivered at the
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right time of day and delivered
in the right format to me, and I
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think that's where we're going
to get is very, you know, first
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of all the content being super
efficiently put together. And
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then the actual learning being,
you know, if you like,
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customized on the fly to, in
delivery to make sure that, you
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know, it's got the best possible
chance of, of engagement and
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retention.
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Yeah, I love that kind of
vision, too. Because, I mean,
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that's something I've been
turned on to just through
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different partners and
connections I have is this idea
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of, of AI. And that, yeah, you
know, that there's, there's
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parts that for their civil
future, I think human
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involvement is definitely
necessary in certain aspects.
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But a lot of the ability to
spread a message and get that
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out there in different formats
can be highly automated. And
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that machine learning, as you
mentioned, can definitely pull a
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lot of these messages out from
different resources. Because,
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you know, it may be you know,
the app provides one direct
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solution and direct access for
the sharing of content. But then
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that content could be, you know,
repurposed elsewhere for access
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to new audio, new or similar
audiences. And so, divisions
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cool. Yeah.
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Yeah. And also just, we use a
theory called spaced repetition,
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which we really are looking for,
you know, for audiences to
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retain what they've, what
they've covered. We have an
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algorithm based on SM two that
will space out the key concepts.
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And so again, a few minutes a
day, very simple to think about
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it very similar to like learning
a language where you're able to
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just top up make sure that you
can recall those key concepts or
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keep them top of mind and I
think there as well, some of
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work there is pretty advanced,
but I'm sure it's an area that
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we're pushing our teams to keep
thinking about the AI models and
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and what models do we have now
that we could be thinking about
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that would help ensure that in
high performance teams, we can
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keep those key concepts Top of
Mind and easily recalled whether
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they work in, you know, sales on
the shop floor? You know, out
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there, out there in the
manufacturing facilities? Or if
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you're in the United Nations,
you're a field worker out in
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northern Somalia, how can we,
how can we make those kinds of
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changes be super impactful to,
to those learners lives?
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Yeah, well, and the power of
just language translation that
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you referenced in that, that a
lot of that can be automated, is
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huge. I mean, I know that, you
know, whether is that or, you
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know, a, I guess a cousin to
that is ADA, or, you know,
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audio, visual, and disability,
disability and compliance,
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things like that, for those who
are hard of hearing, or hard of
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sight. And just the access to a
variety of flavors, so to speak.
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And access to this kind of
content, is just going to allow
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it fit into different formats,
let alone like I find a lot of a
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lot of software's or solutions
out there. Don't make it very
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easy to get an app or mobile
access. A lot of it is very
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desktop friendly. But yeah, the
translation of that to something
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as simple as clicking on one of
your apps on your phone, which
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is one of the easiest way to get
access to people overall.
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Because they're all like, that's
the one computer they always
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have on them is their phone. And
so yeah, that's that's a
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powerful piece. And,
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yeah, we've got a lot of work to
make sure that works in low
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signal areas, you can you can
even take your learning in
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offline mode, once you've been
connected to a network. We do
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lots and lots of work on on
making sure that everything's
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accessible, you know, in parts
of the developing world,
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frankly, that, yeah, so it's a
great experience and accessible
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for as many people on the planet
as possible.
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Yeah, definitely. Well, well,
Darren, one thing I'm curious
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about is for those who are
wanting to have like a great
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introduction and beyond this
show, to add app and to what
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you're up to in your your team,
what's the best the next place
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for them to go to To learn more,
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you can jump onto an app.com and
have a look, it's all it's a
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freemium product. So you know,
there's no credit cards or
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anything like that required, you
can run it up completely for
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free in teams of almost any
size. And yeah, that's a really
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great place to get started. And,
and yeah, have a have a look
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around. We've got a multitude
of, you know, YouTube and, and
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content actually on an app
itself that shows you how to be
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a fantastic author. There's lots
of case studies on those who are
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currently using it and what
they're using it for. And
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they'll be a whole host of
ideas. I'm sure there for your
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audience to be able to get a
sense whether or not it's
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something that might be suitable
for them.
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Yeah, definitely. Well, this has
been so valuable. Darren, I'm
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excited for a platform like this
because to me, there's not many
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like unique solutions like this
out there that really
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democratize the access to
education, and a more modern
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sense versus archaic data that
much, I guess, so I appreciate
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your time and look pretty
connected more.
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Awesome. Good on you. Thanks
very much.
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